Sam Coates, Chief Political Correspondent of The Times
We've made some changes
to The Sunday Times
The Speaker of the Commons is facing a revolt over his decision to fight the release of MPs expenses in the High Court after the Liberal Democrats formally declared their opposition to the appeal.
Nick Clegg is calling for the immediate publication of the data relating to 14 MPs — including the Liberal Democrats Sir Menzies Campbell and Mark Oaten — after the disclosure order by the Information Tribunal. Details about other MPs' expenses would follow in October
Michael Martin revealed yesterday that he wanted to mount a legal challenge against the tribunal's order to reveal details of every item MPs spent under their £23,000 second-home allowance.
Although initial legal advice was that such a court action could not be won, Mr Martin found a second lawyer over the weekend who suggested that there was a chance of an appeal being successful.
Today the Liberal Democrats urged the Speaker to publish all the details, minus MPs' addresses, as soon as possible. They said that they did not believe it merited a costly High Court action.
Paul Burstow, the party's chief whip, contacted Mr Martin to raise concern over the issue and to ask when the expenses details would be released.
A spokeswoman for Mr Clegg said: “We agree with the appeal about the publication of addresses, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the expenses cannot be published now.”
This came after Mr Martin told MPs that they could not raise the High Court battle over their expenses in the House. Amid signs of a backlash from some MPs over the decision to appeal against the release of their second-home allowance claims, Mr Martin said the matter was sub-judice.
His comments came as David Winnick, the Labour MP, raised concerns in the chamber about the surprise move, announced yesterday at the 11th hour. The MP was cut off by Mr Martin, who said: “This matter is before the court and therefore it is sub-judice for the House of Commons.
“I know that the media can talk about it, but for the House of Commons the rules are quite clear.”
Speaking outside the chamber shortly after the exchange, Mr Winnick criticised the decision by the Commons Commission, which is chaired by Mr Martin, to begin an appeal without consulting MPs.
He said: “The House of Commons Commission was wrong to take this case to the appeal court, except on the question of addresses, without consulting Members. It's been done in a way that suggests this is the unanimous view of the House of Commons, and that is not the case.
“The danger is, unfortunately, that people get the impression that we have something to hide.”
The legal challenge is expected to cost more than £100,000 — on top of the £52,000 the Commons has already spent opposing Freedom of Information rulings.
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The outcome will determine the extent of one law for MP's and another for the constituents....shame, shame, shame.
Mr Greenwood, Reading, Berks
I notice that the speaker did not get the legal advice that he wanted he went elsewherte for advice. Pity it was not Goldsmith he could have been persauded to change his own mind to fit the situation required.
allen, Leeds, England
I don't want to know WHERE any of them live. I do want to know upon what my taxes are frittered away.
When I claimed travel expenses (before retirement) the Inland Revenue was VERY keen to know how much, and to the last penny. Sauce for the goose ----?
Douglas Rolph, Dereham, Norfolk, ENGLAND
The Inland Revenue should demand receipts for expenses, if they can not be produced or not acceptable, the money should be taxed as income. The same as they do everyone elses expenses.
Mike, cyprus,
It is little more than a milch cow for somme of them. What has happened to integrity and decency? In any walk of life expenses must be supported by receipts. Do the decent thing.
Francis cunningham, OLDHAM, LANCS
They should have to do what the rest of us do ie account for every penny that we claim for on expenses. They make this ridiculous claim that it is too onerous to bother accounting for anything less than £250. If that is the case could they remove such an onerous task from the rest of us.
charlie clark, london,
This may seem cynical but I wonder how much of the excellent quality John Lewis chinaware, cutlery, bedding, carpets, cooking accessories and whatever went to their principal homes ... while their London pads were furnished with the unwanted items the new purchases replaced.
I wonder ???
Maurice Smith, Medway, Kent
If the "The Abuse of Expenses Issue" cannot be cleared up by parliament, then how can the public expect any other delicate matters to be resolved in a timely, transparent and just manner. The credibility of the British Parliamentary System is at stake with this issue. The world is watching!
Jim Wills, Brisbane, Australia
I heard a lady in Burma talking about her government on radio 4 this week.
She said we have always despised our government but now we feel real hatred.
I am at the depising stage for 99% of our politicians ( except Frank Field )
Massive reform of the system in this country is required.
John Flack, Beaumaris, Wales
Michael Martin is a mockery of everything The Commons Speaker should be; a man promoted way above his ability but protected by that other incompetant, Gordon Brown. When is the tax payer going to finally get a "sleaze free" House??
Chris, Aberdeen, UK
Cut the expenses,cut their numbers,cut the holidays and foreign "junkets" and then when MPs are living in the real world, the public might respect them more, and vote.
R Grant, Whitstable,
Why shouldn't MP's declare their expenses? They are PUBLIC Servants, paid by us the public. We have to declare our income to the taxman, what makes them so special. I don't see why we have to pay for their second homes, they can stay in a Hotel for less, it's about time they stopped wasting OUR money
Stone, Enger, Germany
I have now decided to use my vote in the only way left to me I am now a non voter. It does not matter who you vote for they all line their own pockets . Meanwhile children are born in poverty .OAP's survive on less than 15,000 a year. These fraudsters are able to cover themselves by having one of the biggest rogues 'clean up the house' . I am truly 'gutted ' is the only word I can find to express my discontent with them . I am ashamed that I helped put them into government.
m. kennedy, Glasgow, Scotland
Just imagine sending your son to war while this man spends £100,000 of taxpayers money on a case he cannot win ?
Alex, Manchester, UK
Martin is just another sleazy labour politician out to try to avoid the truth of him grubby excessive expenses.
D Case, Newquay,
If Mr Martin has taken this step without the agreement of the other 14 MP's as stated there is an easy answer. Why don't the other 14 publish and be damned. They could choose to leave out the details of their addresses at this stage if they wished. Could and would Mr. Martin then continue with the High Court Appeal?
barbara, north east,
Within the Houses of Parliament any memeber can say what he likes against another member without any fear of litigation.
Suddenly when questions are raised about rhe speakers expenses it cannot be discussed because it is sub-judice. It seems the time has arrived to discuss changing the speaker but no doubt a point of order or two could be found to close that line of discussion very quickly
stanley , Haifa ,
I don't think that it is possible to give Mr. Martin a P45, because I thought, possible wrongly, that P45's could only given to people who on were on the point of or had lost their job which had been gainful, useful and necessary employment. For the life in me I cannot see that description fitting Mr Martin in any way shape or form.
Len lowe, Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire, Great Britain
This has gone on long enough.
These Members of Our government are there to run our country for all of the people, not by milking us for all they can get.They seem to have forgotten why they went into politics in the first place.
I for one would love to account for where all the money goes for once and I would do it for minimum wage as its not about the money so does that make me the only decent person in the Uk fit for the job?
lloyd fairweather, Norwich, Norfolk
How curious that some of those who enlisted in class warfare in their angry youth, now seek not only retain the perquisites of their advancement in class, but to hide them from the people.
Indeed, in spite of the will of the House, Mr. Martin is clawing so desperately to keep things hidden, one would be forgiven for having suspicion of his motives!
Bob Evans, Anaheim, California
If the appeal fails then I would hope that the 14 MP's concerned pay the legal expenses of the challenge. I get the feeiling that somehing is in the air regarding the impression of the public to MP's integrity and it will only be a small push to put the public over the tipping point and then civil disobedience will manifest itself. The public are nearly there now.
alan stuck, sturminster newton, dorset
I cannot wait to see what The Speaker of the Commons Michael Martin has to hide.
I am 100% certain that although his claims will obviously withing the law , He will be shown to have 'Milked' the system.
I await with baited breath.
Peter, Hull, Yorkshire
Can this man Martin keep wasting taxpayers' money until he gets the outcome he wants? This legal challenge is going to cost taxpayers £100,000, and it is proceeding despite initial legal advice stating that the court action could not be won. When someone with responsibility for MPs expenses can so casually waste taxpayers' money I think it is time for a change not only in rules, but in personnel as well.
Des, Edinburgh,
if youve had your hand in the cookie jar . Emty your pockets!
If not ,dont be afraid.
ernie middleton, washington , tyne&wear England
This particular Speaker is a law unto himself. His P45 should be in the 1st class post by recorded delivery.
Mac, Oban, Argyll
The problem could be easily solved in the manner of Iolanthe. If the offending problem is the MP's address then just don't publish it. Otherwise give the electorate/taxpayers the information, Government has all of ours apart from our DNA etc. but that seems you will get with or without agreement
Nick, Cardiff, Wales
Just a thought. As a way of concentrating Mr Martin's mind how about: if the case is proven, fair do and I, as a taxpayer, help to cough up; however, if the case fails, he becomes liable for the bill? These people are great at taking risks with other people's money but never their own! Time for a change, methinks.
James, Alcanar, Spain