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From The Times

November 12, 2007

Paris? Perfect. Er, apart from the French . . .

Paris is now just 2hr 15min away from St Pancras on the Eurostar. But is it worth the trip? After living there for nearly four years, Janine di Giovanni believes it has problems: with its men, women, manners, strikes, fashion, doctors . . .

Before I moved to Paris, there were so many things that I loved about France. The language, the food, the people, the culture. As a child, I had been steeped in books such as Le Petit Prince and films such as Le Ballon rouge. As a teenager, I read the expatriate novels of Hemingway, Fitzgerald and James Baldwin. My favourite poets and painters were French.

It never really surprised me that the love of my life turned out to be French, or that I would eventually leave London, the city that I adore and lived in for more than two decades, to have my much longed-for baby in a French hospital.

What was surprising was that I thought the transition would be easy. I had worked as a foreign correspondent for 17 years, mainly in Third World countries where I had no water, electricity or luxuries. I thought of myself as adaptable, relaxed, someone who could fit in anywhere.

In contrast to my chaotic single life, the world of motherhood and marriage in the 6th arrondissement was going to be sublime. Not! I never realised how difficult and often painful the move would be. Certainly, it would be more difficult than when I moved to Britain from the US as a teenager in 1982. Then I was young and that transition was pretty painless. But I was 40 when I moved to Paris in January, 2004, a few weeks before Luca, my son, was born. Arriving in a new country before the birth of a first child was probably not the cleverest move of my life. But nothing about the way my husband, Bruno, a journalist for French TV, whom I met in Sarajevo in 1993, and I lived was ever organised. We preferred spontaneity and impulse to order.

But our life in Paris was meant to be different. Bruno was returning from three years in the war-torn Ivory Coast. I had made a decision after five months in Iraq that I wanted to write from home and stay with my baby rather than travel. And Paris would be a great place to write, to explore and to live without complications.

It was freezing the night we arrived at the Gare du Nord after packing up my flat in London. The lift in our new flat overlooking the Tuilerie Gardens was broken: my first introduction to French strikes (which are constant) and terrible service (nothing ever gets fixed when you need it). I heaved my 60lb-heavier body up five flights of stairs, opened the door and burst into tears. Bruno took me by the hand and pointed across the Seine to the clock glowing on the Musée d’Orsay. “Look! See what a beautiful life we are going to have!”

The lift got fixed a few days later, and we painted the walls white and threw out the rubbish. We did make a beautiful life for ourselves, and moved to our own place across the river near the Luxembourg Gardens. When the baby was born I was thrust into perhaps the most difficult aspect of French life: French healthcare. It’s a myth that everything in France is better. The food and wine, perhaps, but give me my NHS GP any day compared with a French doctor who loads you up with drugs and prescriptions and insults you. All in a 30-minute consultation.

From the GP: “Must you Anglo-Saxons consume so much sugar? Get on the scales! My God, what a horror!” From the dermatologist: “Have you thought of a little Botox between your eyes? No? Why not?”

Mine was a high-risk pregnancy and I gave birth in the best maternity unit in France. It’s true that the guru of obstetricians, Professor René Frydman, delivered my son (almost free) and that I had no pain, no stitches and laughed and made out with my husband all through the labour. It’s true that my son was seven weeks premature and the hospital was so brilliant that he did not need an incubator. And that we stayed for ten days and got expert care and no bill.

But I had to bring my own pillows, kettle, teabags, food, sheets and towels. The nurses were cruel and bossy. Laughing when I was in tears over my newborn’s constant hiccups; refusing to help me breast-feed (“because it’s not good for the baby”), making rude comments behind my back about “l’Anglaise”.

The other shock about the French is the weird way that they mother their children. They have the second-highest birthrate in Europe behind the Irish. There’s a reason: French women like to show off their fecundity and the State gives out huge payments for having children. Being a nation of freeloaders, the French like their benefits.

Another shock is that they make no room in their lives for their children. They return to work almost immediately. The crèche system is so good (and free) that they feel no guilt at dumping a baby of three months at a daycare centre with a stranger. They are more committed to getting their bodies back to perfection; getting their husbands away from their secretaries; and getting ahead on the corporate ladder. As well as having enough time to get groomed at Carita and buy more shoes at Christian Louboutin. I abandoned my trainers when I moved to Paris.

The other strange thing is that French women don’t breast-feed. My friend Catherine screeched a few weeks before I gave birth: “You will ruin your tits! Then you’ll have to get a boob job.” She then gave me the name of the best plastic surgeon in France. “Eventually, you’ll need him, anyway,” she whispered.

La vie de la couple, la vie de la couple,” was all I ever heard in the first few weeks after I gave birth. Think about your husband. Think about how quickly you can restore your sex life. How quickly you can dump the infant with his grandparents and go away for a romantic weekend. I was still woozy with the epidural a day after the birth when a prescription landed on my bed. It was for a bizarre treatment dating back to the First World War and beloved by French women, called rééducation périnéale. “What is this?” I demanded of the nurse.

“It’s for your husband,” she winked. I will not go into the medical details, but you are paid by the State to go to a physical therapist to get your pelvic floor in shape. You also get 20 training sessions to get your tummy flat again, with the same physical therapist. Free.

The next shock of life in France, I found, was the relations between men and women. France is a country where men never leave you alone. It does not matter if you are old, wrinkled, enormous or married. You will get stared at.

At first, it’s flattering. Then it gets annoying, because you can’t slip out of your house to get the papers in your tracksuit. You always have to be on top form. I learnt this the hard way in the first few weeks after the birth. Unkempt, teary, breasts swollen to footballs, I got more male attention than I ever have in my life (aside from when I lived in Italy). The chicken man at the rôtisserie would flirt so outrageously and stand so close to me that I would blush. The oyster man would stare down my cleavage with no embarrassment, grinning like a moron.

The waiters at my local café brought me steaming cups of café au lait in the morning and called me “ ma jolie”. Couldn’t they just leave me alone? Even an old boyfriend (French, now married) would send e-mails with such graphic details of our past love life together that I deleted them before I finished reading them. It seemed no one in France can get enough of sex, or at least the idea of sex. The flirting might not be such a bad thing. As one sixtysomething French beauty pointed out to me, to live in a nation where women grow old beautifully, and where they are still desired, is marvelous. But this flirting has its price: pressure. I met an American girlfriend for lunch recently. She’s married to an Englishman. She wore jeans, sneakers and a T-shirt and looked comfortable and happy. I was riding my bike, but dressed like Dita Von Teese in a curvy 1940s-style dress, red high-heels and a fur wrap cinched with a belt.

“My, you always look so turned out,” she said sweetly. (A Frenchwoman would tell me that my hair needed cutting, or my shoes were all wrong, but more about that later.)

“Well, I have a French husband,” I answered without thinking. And it’s true. My husband may go around in the same ripped trousers, a leather jacket and four days of stubble, but he’d have a fit if I did not try to look sexy most of the time.

Even at home, at night, even if I wanted to, I could not schlepp around in flannel pajamas with unwashed hair. The minute I moved to France, I went to Laurence Tavernier, the Frenchwoman’s secret nightgown specialist, and bought two beautiful dressing gowns and a handful of silk nightgowns. Then I went to La Perla. It cost me nearly €1,000 (£700), but there was no option. My next introduction was to French sisterhood. I have many terrific French girlfriends in Paris. But the strait-laced, bourgeois Frenchwoman would hardly let me into her home (or her life) because most French women have their friends sorted out by the time they are 16.

The second aspect of French sisterhood is that there is none. There is no role model of feminism as there is in England or America. No Germaine Greer, Rosie Boycott or Gloria Steinem. There was Simone de Beauvoir, but would you call her a feminist? She financially supported Jean-Paul Sartre’s other mistresses and sobbed herself to sleep when he did not give her enough attention.

The competition here is fierce. From the time a Frenchwoman is very young, she is brought up to view other females as rivals: for men, for places at school, for attention. It is no coincidence that they are so bony. It’s not to fit into those drainpipe jeans. It’s to have sharp elbows to push you off the pavements.

If you go to a French party, you quickly learn two things. One is that the women don’t want to waste time talking to you (the men will be slobbering all over you). They want to talk to your husband. The second is that there is no drink. You will be given one glass of very good champagne. You look for the second, but there is none. Don’t even think of taking the bottle and pouring yourself a glass. You will be met with a stony silence and a look of horror.

It’s the same at lunch or dinner parties. One or two bottles of very good wine and an inch in your glass. I have sat at dinners for what seemed like hours, waiting for someone to pass the drink. Either there is no more, or they just don’t want to crack open the next one.

But it goes deeper than that. Aside from a few rare kindred spirits (usually French journalist friends who love whisky), the French don’t get smashed and they have a deep abhorrence of drunken women.

I could go on and on with the complaints, because I have picked up the most famous French habit, so different from the English stiff upper lip: the art of whining nonstop. Il faut râler, you gotta complain.

I could complain about the upcoming strikes, which mean no one goes to work; I could complain about the snotty mothers who wait outside my son’s schools and don’t say hello to me; I could complain about the educational system, which beats children into robotic, polite submission but kills their spirit.

But instead I will end by saying, despite it all, I love France. Even though I wrote in my will, “Please don’t bury me on French soil”, I am not sure, after four years, if I could go back to live in England. I often come and see my friends, go to my favourite restaurants thinking about how easy it would be to send my son to a school where the teacher had the same culture as me.

By the second day, I am ready to go home to Paris. I miss the speed of the Metro; I miss the vegetable seller at the market; I miss the flower-shop on the corner of Boulevard Raspail where my husband buys me ten bunches of flowers a week (for €10); I miss the beauty of the city that still knocks me out when I cross the Seine on my bicycle.

I walk through the Luxembourg Gardens most days and feel awed by the romance of the place. I see my son growing up bilingual (and well-behaved because of his strict French papa) and I think how lucky he is.

Because to live in France, for all its flaws, really is a gift. And besides, when I am away from Paris for a few days, I begin to miss my outrageous, flirtatious butcher.

What’s wrong with Englishwomen – where does one start?

Englishwomen have big feet and are always badly dressed. They don’t take care of their looks or their bodies. They’re either too fat or too thin. They are shy and awkward with people they don’t know and they are always apologising for themselves. They drink a lot, probably to help to get over the shyness. This makes them loud and unbearable. They seem masculine, especially what we call l’executive woman.

Englishwomen stick together and don’t like going out of their circle. It’s hard to make friends with Englishwomen, but that’s pretty much the same for any group outside their own country. English manners in upper society are even stricter than chez nous. Americans are friendly but not the English. They are very class-bound and contemptuous of anyone outside their circle. You get bored with Englishwomen at dinner parties because the men talk together and expect the women to withdraw.

With men, Englishwomen are not very entreprenante (adventurous), which isn’t a bad thing, especially if you have a good-looking husband like mine. They don’t jump at him like Frenchwomen, who are never content with their own guy. It’s good with English waitresses and salesgirls because my husband always flirts with them and they don’t respond. Frenchwomen show everything. Englishwomen must be the same as us in private and must enjoy going to bed with men, like us, but they’re Protestants, like the Swiss, so they’re rigid and stuffy.

You don’t see children much in London. I don’t know where they hide their kids. It’s a bit like in Japan. They seem to hide the children because they’re untidy. The Americans are the opposite. Their kids are everywhere.

English houses are always cold, especially the bathrooms. The insides of the homes are usually a tasteless mess, a bit shabby, with old carpet that smells of dog. They have no lightness, it’s all heavy with things hanging everywhere. And they have fake wood fires fuelled with gas. Don’t even start me with their country houses, which the English are obsessed about.

And let’s not talk about the food. The English think they have learnt about cuisine lately, but it’s made things worse. They never stop talking about cooking, but it’s still fatty sauce and potatoes and odd vegetables thrown together.

Christine de Bellefonds
(A publisher’s editor and resident of Paris, who lived in London 1992-97)

The article is hilarious ...nevermind those easily offended by satire. Now I definitely think your depiction is meant for the silver screen. So let's expand the story more and send it to HOLLYWOOD!! I've visited the city and researching for a move there to study. Thanks for the laughs.

Alicia Renee, Washington, DC USA

Paris is not France !
Parisians are not french !

Gordon, London,

I think a doctor should be entitled to worry about your sugar intake if you've put on 60lb during your pregnancy! The opposite would be quite worrying!
I find this kind of writing quite easy. You lash on you criticism all along and at the end you tell us that despite all that, you love France. That's so English.
You should read the book of Agnes Catherine Poirier - TouchÃ©, A French woman's take on the English. This is a more informed view about cultural differences between English and French.

Fabienne, Leeds, England

Being a French man living in the UK (with a French wife, 2 young children and a third to come in Feb), I would have lots to say about differences between UK and France, but I'm fed up with all these complaints from this side of the channel and don't want to go on with this age long war which just show that there are cultural differences...The French system may not be the best one , but it is good. The UK system has got many failures as well, but I accept it as it is. Already happy with what it brings.
Regarding arrogance, well... There are as many rude and arrogant people in the UK as in France. I even think sometimes I would prefer the French way of telling things in front of you rather than the insidious way of some English people.
But, again, I accept cultural differences and I try to live with it. And I enjoy my life in the UK. So please, stop trying to bring Joan of Arc alive to burn her again. ;o)

Philippe, Leeds,

To Judith Denning:

'It is only the strange Parisians who give France a bad name. The rest ... are a delight'

Having lived in the south of france for the last 14 years of my life (i am now 18) i can safely say that you are wrong. True the Parisians are the epitome of French arrogance, but 'the rest of the French' are no better'. You cannot have a country with a capital which does not reflect the nation as a whole. Taking this into account; Parisians are the intense version of all French people. If you go to the south of France you are still met with the same staring egotism where not only the butcher looks at you with his tongue hanging out but everyone does.

France is beautiful, the French are not.

Greg Bond, London, England

To Judith Denning:
You are right: English women consider themselves more important (and more often) than their husbands. An excellent reason for me to move to Paris!

David Devore, London, UK

Have just married my french hubby in paris, christine is right about the wine at parties, flow free it does not! my guests, some english some welsh, were left for over an hour waiting for a drink at the wedding party while we were off having our photo's done. they weren't allowed to drink anything before the champagne toasts! then when they did get some drinks and got a bit 'happy, let's dance' drunk all hell broke loose and they were accused of being alcohol-stealing drunks!
i have also been refered to as l'anglaise in a disparaying (oh i'm only joking) fashion by my in-laws.
however, my hubby, even though he is a parisian is sweet and never looks at another women (i'm paraniod and check regularly) and says that he fell in love with me because french women never make an effort to look nice (he's 25 so maybe it's a generation thing) and i've never felt intimidated in the looks stake in paris. British dress is far more cutting-edge and interesting, french dress sense is very bland.

E. Garson, Cardiff,

Pelvic Floor exercises have been taught in Britain for at least 40 years and probably more, for free by the nurses in the hospitals - for the benefit of the the mother who after all is FAR more important than her husband.
How sad that many Parisian women feel they have no life apart from their husband/partner. How exhausting is all that posing and obsession with appearance! And materialistic too. And a true indication of lack of selfworth.
But it is only the strange Parisians who give France a bad name. The rest of France and its people are a delight.

Judith Denning, High Wycombe, UK

I have lived in France, not Paris for the last 16 years and it is different from the UK not better not worse, I accept what is better hear and being a true brit moan about the things that aren't great BUT I am looking forward to some fun with Sarco!!
It's already started!!! haha

alex telford, granville, france

A a French Pintade who has lived in London for ages I agree with a lot but... A privileged life in the 6th arrondissement gives a warped view of the French experience, as would a French tourist viewing London from Kensington, never visiting Hackney, believing Notting Hill gives a real picture of London and "Dirty Pretty Things" is science-fiction.
Virginie Despentes is a very interesting feminist, more accessible than Helene Cixous, but her CV is too scary for some, she swears, and does not write like an academic. She is never going to be accepted by les Bien Pensants. France is still very conservative. Simone De Beauvoir, from a good family, unhappy and trampled on is an acceptable Feminist Icon.

d, london,

I too live in France, and while I recognise some aspects of the writer's experience here, there are some factual inaccuracies that I find very surprising (and that cast doubt on the research, if any, that went into this article).

- creches in France are not free, except perhaps for the very poorest parents, although they are highly subsidised.

- pelvic floor "re-education" for women who have given birth also aims to deal with disorders such as urinary incontinence that some mothers suffer from. It isn't all about the sex! On a similar point, it's only mothers who have had Caesareans who get subsidised physio to re-educate their stomach muscles - so again, there is a higher medical purpose to it than the writer suggests.

Brit in France, Paris,

The author might be right even though a thousand other people have not shared her experiences. When Japanese tourists return home from a week in Paris, many of them need medical treatment, so serious is their deception of having met the ill-mannered and bad-tempered natives. This was reported on French television (JT sur France 2). The government is now trying to better the reputation of the Parisians by offering courses in how to behave beginning with the taxi-drivers. This being so Janine di Govanni seems to ignore 95 % of the population who do not belong to the upper circles of the society.

Bjorn , Fribourg, Switzerland

I'm in Paris with a French husband and young baby, but I don't recognise anything about either Paris or London from either of these women. Most people here don't mix with the BCBG and we tend to buy our lingerie in Etam or Monoprix rather than La Perla!

Drink coffee in Paris and tea in London is what I say. We're so lucky to have easy access to both cultures and you simply enjoy what's best of each of them.

Blob, Paris,

Contrary to the shocked indignation of some of the respondents, we must presume that the article fairly reflected the experiences of at least the author ... right? As to the inaccuracies -- what are they? I lived in Paris for three years and much of what she wrote seems to me to be very familiar, at least with regard to male-female relations.

As to the French health system ... what on Earth is she moaning about? My only beef there would be (IHMO) their bizarre trauma procedures.

With regard to drinking, it is true the French are not prone to getting "legless" as are the Brits. But go into any cafe at 10am you will see French men (not women) drinking. And at lunch it seems like the entire nation imbibes -- but not the three plus pints of the Brits. Dinner parties can be odd, however.

And French women, bless them, are incredibly well turned out. That it might be a form of intra-women warfare would be or is sad, but for the men it is reason to tarry at the cafe a little longer.

Brett, Boston, MA

Wow, you sure are a critical lot!!

I am Australian, and have lived in France for 5 1/2 years(south west). Before this I lived in England for 4 years, so feel able to comment on both impartially.
There are good and bad aspects of both countries - I have had experience of the NHS and the French health system(had an operation 2 weeks ago - unimpressed by French nursing care).

My husband works in Paris and I stay with him regularly - it is a magnificent city, the food is great value!

French culture is so different to British, it is the root of the grievances from both sides. Priorities are different - Brits could take more pride.

I totally agree with a lot of Janine's comments - read Sara Turnbull's 'Almost French' - it has helped my husband cope with how he is treated and ignored in his French office. It IS true, it happens, but working in England was no party either - culture again.
No matter how elite, Janine has some relevant points - don't criticise till you walk in her shoes.

Allison, SAINTES, France

i recognised many of the situations you are talking about. france is a lovely country with many great things, but they should stop thinking these many great things are the best ever, because there are better things in other places. i think french are hiding some kind of frustration, if not, i do not understand why they keep comparing everything to the french way. when you are sure you are the best, you dont ever bother looking around..... and special mention to the rude way of behaving with unknown people. their politesse is a kind of rude and coolness formality. france would be a better place if french people knew how to relax a little bit and stop judging everything.

paolo, milano, italy

I had to pinch myself reading this. I recognise almost nothing in this fatuous article about France. Perhaps it is just Paris. Would one judge the USA on New York, or Britain on just London ?

My family and I moved here over 12 years ago from England, a country I saw as having no desire to be part of Europe let alone assume any kind of leadership in it.

Our move was not easy, but would I go back ? No.

Whenever I travel back to the UK, I see dirt, rudeness, laziness, a lack of decent service and in nearly every case in recent trips what good service i have received is given by what would be called an "immigrant" whether they be Russian, Aussies, South African or Poles.

Here, I find workmen turn up, work hard, take lunch, return, clear up after themselves and the bill matches their quote. My doctor doesn't keep me waiting hours, my local hospital is clean and efficiently run.

My supermarket isn't open 24/7 and for that I am grateful. Life is too short as it is....

HUBBLE, Evian, France

It's rather a sad situation when women have to slag each other off to feel good about themselves. Maybe I've lived in the States too long, but this all smacks of very "low self esteem".

Toni Hargis, expat, Chicago, USA

Elise's attitude is exactly the problem of France. they keep thinking they are the best and they dont even know what is out there. she allows herself to make fun of the author s level of french and i would pay to hear elise speaking foreign languages..... this is not one of your country's strengthens darling. cheese, maybe. wine, why not. clothes, definitively not. kindness, forget about it. beautiful women, forget again about it. handsome men, i would say yes. like in every where, you have good things and very bad ones. so open your eyes and accept the critics which are quite accurate.

johen, viena, austria

I think articles from people who live in Paris should carry a large warning that nothing in them is typical. I have lived here in the Languedoc for almost twenty years and find nearly all her experiences quite different fom my own, if sometimes very amusing.She should try living in the real France.

SYLVIA BARNES, CAUSSINIOJOULS, France

Spot on about the food, I've lived her for 2 years and have not had one good restaurant meal. Also correct about the drinking, at an evening conversational class, I had to look at my empty wine glass and an open bottle of wine for 40 minutes. At the next meeting I wasn't so shy and poured myself a glass - if looks could kill ! Also true about the over prescribing of medication. Also true that the education system is robotic and I think that's why the French in general lack creative imagination (not the same thing as style which is in the eye of the beholder). Also true that is a nice place to live, as long as you are conventional and middle class.

J White, Paris,

Once again, here is the unevitable mistake made by almost all foreigners (even brilliant journalist with an acute sense of analysis, no offense...) about France's way of life : you mistake France and Paris and you tend to genralize a bit too much. People should really not try to get stuck on the Parisian life, which is very very very different from the life in what we call La Province. And I am not talking about the Riviera either. Try Brittany, try Marseilles (the real Marseilles) try le Massif Central, les PyrennÃ©es etc... It's too bad tho reduce France to Paris, the bitchy women, the always-flirting-guys.
But beside that, your article was fun, and despite French's terrible sense of humor, I laughed !

Lise, Brest, France

As a French young girl, I must confess I really enjoy this article. It is true, but not enought. And never forget that "we" do not like English (since Trafalgar, it's going worse and worse).
Sincerely, there is a point to enlight. This is about Frenchwomen... Pariswomen we should say. Mostly in upper society (the VI th arrondissement and its surroundings are rich quarters).

As for Englishwomen, the portrait can't be true for each one, I don't believe it.

Anyway, the reading was a pleasure.

Sophie, Paris, France

I love Paris and I love London, for different reasons; in terms of women, however, I don't know what's worse - Self-conscious, fickle traits embodied by English girls or the overly-introverted and pretentious type epitomized by les filles francaises are equally offputting to me.

Love what you're doing, be sure and be happy - beauty will shine through naturally!

Victoria, London,

Some people may not have read the whole article. It was a fun read, apparently the writer used a lot of british sense of humor (aka not funny for other people lol) but the key part of this article is:

"Because to live in France, for all its flaws, really is a gift. And besides, when I am away from Paris for a few days, I begin to miss my outrageous, flirtatious butcher. "

Then she goes on ranting about Englishwomen nailing the whole topic. Very well written lol

aka France has a much better standard of living / lifestyle.

Heinrich, Vienna, Austria

I'm English and have lived about 15 miles west of Paris for 10 years or so.

The problem with Paris is not the French: the problem is the parisiens.

The inhabitants of Paris are generally looked on by the other 90-odd percent of French people as rude, unpleasant and a downright embarrassment.

Try Paris in August. All the parisiens leave Paris on the same day (causing massive traffic jams) to travel south.

Paris without the parisiens is a delightful city.

I imagine that Mme de Bellefonds knows this very well. But it would have spoiled her story.

Stephen Nelson, Le Mesnil-le-Roi, France

Let us forget the language problems that are not really related to the difficulties you describe; you must be truly unlucky to have met within 4 years the most terrible "clichÃ©s" about French people.
I am a Russian student, living in Paris for more than 8 years with my parents and I do not recognize the country I'm living in.
However, thank you for that description, and think about selling your story to Hollywood, that will make a great film about french society.

Ivan, Paris,

From London to Paris.
I have been living in England for a bit more than 3 years now and I must say that I miss Paris. Paris is beautiful. London is more materialistic I reckon. But I believe there are positive aspects in both cities. I am working with British teenagers and I have to say that French educational system might be too strict or too rigid but at least the kids are not as spoon fed as in the UK. We should rethink the way to teach and educate our children ,our future in both countries. Il faut du courage croyez-moi.

Claudine, Slough,

Am sure Christine heard "la vie de la couple" many a time up to saturation... so much it was uttered in the wrong form. Couple is a maculin noun in French and the correct saying is "vie de couple" or "du couple". Hmmm, 3 useful years scrutinising the Parisian way indeed...

Jerome, London, UK

Les filles!
Why this anger? I can only say this about the French after five years in Paris; You have NO sense of humour or irony when it comes to yourselves. To laugh a little at personal experiences, oh la la! Pas possible!
It is really quite sad, as you do not even see how the writer does this continually. Vous avez peur du ridicule. Sadly.
Have to say the piece made me laugh out loud. Exellent!
Jenny, 33, Paris

Jenny, paris, france

Having visited Paris and many French towns over the years, I must say, the French are sooo different to the Parisiens. The Parisiens are another breed, so far up their own backsides it is shocking!

Not long returned from a stay in a wonderful Chateau near Angers, in the Loire Valley, I can honestly say the people there really know how to be. They are at ease with themselves and although still look good when out and about, they seem to enjoy life, unlike the Parisiens who seem to endure life. Oh how I would hate to feel that I could never relax, as they seem not to.
However,
I was once mistaken for a french women, on holiday in Portugal, as I am petite, well dressed and was told I looked stand-offish, ( and had a very small glass of wine in hand and I held my hand over the glass when the guy tried to replenish)

When challenged on this, he said he meant a Parsien!, but having spoken to me for only 10 min he happily changed his mind- English, obviously, not so typically tho.

Gee,, Hornchurch, Essex

Sorry about your views but they are so Paris .. come and live in real France ... deepest Burgundy, for example .. apart from the appaling tax regime for businesses to support the nation of freeloaders it is by far the most civilised nation on earth .. and i should know as i have lived in most corners of this planet but finally put my roots down in France

andy, Lardieres, France

I have never tried riding my bike dressed like Dita Von Teese in a curvy 1940s-style dress, red high-heels and a fur wrap cinched with a belt, but I will give it a go on wednesday when the next transport strike is on to fetch my baby from her FREE crÃ¨che.

Julie, Paris, France

What sector of the planet Zog have you escaped from? The French Healthcare System leaves anything in UK or USA sat on its derrierre. The autoroutes are the best in the world. There is a thriving aircraft industry. The people are refined and truly gentille. The countryside is absolutely gorgeous.This is definitely the best place to live on the planet (and I have travelled widely). If only Manchester United played here and Sale Rugby Club could move from Stockport to anywhere on a convenient TGV connection it could be paradise.
The only downside is the inability of the French to drive a motorcar - always scary -particularly in car-parks when lunchtime approaches - one has to be very wary.
It's a wonderful country, with wonderful people. Do you really want to live in Gord n' Daves England? Why?

Terry, Aquiraine, France

Hi,
I'm French and of course the article shocked me. However, I believe it would have been the same if the article had been about England without English people.
I think you can't talk about French people in general if you have only been to Paris, even if it has been for a long period.
As someone said previously, France is a country of more than 60 million inhabitants, and each of them are different !
You see, I'm 17 and I read this newspaper. Do all the French teens do so ? No, of course not.
I just feel it's a shame you add prÃ©jugÃ©s to those the French already have.

Valentine, Reims, France

I can't recognise the France I live in from this caricaturial document. I have many French friends (how well does Ms Di Giovanni speak French I wonder - well enough to converse with a whole bunch of French women?), my French husband is faithful and, while he likes me to look good, hates over-dressing. Don't American men like their wives to look good too?

As for pelvic floor exercises, of course they joke it's for your husband - in reality it's so that you don't pee every time you laugh or sneeze in a few years time - think yourself lucky Ms di-Giovanni. I could go on, but this is just another one of those 'we love French bashing' articles that newspapers like to churn out when they've got nothing worthwhile to print.

Patricia, Vannes, France

What can you wait about a Time's article on the French?

exepted a Bashing lie?

English are so jalous that they could only publishing the sole testymony of foreign peoples living in france that France "sux" , and getting from a experience in Paris, who is far to represent "france"!

London will nevah get 20% of Paris greatness in any days!

i get this from my foreign pals living in london, and when i see all the effort from declining influence Power the uk have around creation in general!

Live with it!

John Dear, London, UK

No french feminist models? What about Luce Irigary, HÃ©lÃ¨ne Cixous and Julia Kristeva as a start.

Louise Tabouis, Paris, France

The pelvic floor exercises, which you can choose to do with a physiotherapist or not are actually to stop incontinence and other serious pelvic floor related problems later in life, just in case no one understood that the nurse's wink might have meant she was joking.

Louise Tabouis, Paris, France

I'm an Englishwoman living in Greece and much of what you wrote, particularly concerning the women, seems familiar. Honestly, if you think Paris is bad Greece has been almost soul-destroying in the realisation that i will never have a close Greek female friend. All other foreign women have been lovely and funnily enough i have never met one who has not shared my experiences.

Sarah, Athens, Greece

There is life outside the 6Â°. Try it!

Clare, Dordogne, France

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose...same comments, same old story indeed.

Odile, Saint-Die,

an American telling us about the English? come on!

m, london,

I've been here for a year now, I'm 24 and I'd agree with about 50 percent. I don't get tired of being looked at, better than in England where they don't even recognise if you've made an effort. I also like the markets, yes, where mandatory groping is usual. Honestly, if things are so bad, go back to dreary England, or the States. Don't moan from the 6th, please, do you even live in the real world! Get into the double figures, and see how that is... I can recommend the 18th and 20th personally for a good time.

Lottie, Paris,

Ms di Giovanni forgets to mention in her article that she lives in one of the poshest areas of Paris, that she shops at the most expensive shops in Paris/France/Europe (judging by all the brand names she quotes) and that she has probably never spoken to a "real" French person, ie, someone who has other things to worry about thant her looks, her weight and about whether people like them or not or, for that matter, whether such or such nationality is better than another...

Christine, Colombes, France

Wow it seems you really have got into the habit of French moaning - then again I barely recognise the Paris you're describing. Ok so I haven't been pregant in France but I disagree with most of the rest of the article. Just last Saturday I was at a dinner party (only non-French person there) and a bottle of wine was opened specially for me and my (French) partner. I tend to find that people are very relaxed with whatever you chose - either you can dress up or you wear jeans and trainers - both were present at this dinner party. Maybe its a generation difference (late 20s/early 30s at this party)

Liz, Paris,

Having lived in Paris now for a year I can honestly say I am counting down the months till I go back to the UK. French life, society and women are just awful as described and most of the time worse than that. Working with French colleagues can only be described as a constant watch-out for people listening into your conversations and backstabbing while not taking responsibility for their actions and being rude. Whilst the food might be better (I doubt it, it is a question where you buy it!) and a nice bottle of wine is cheaper, more than a half glass of it is not acceptable and if you dare to ask for a refill you are send off to social nowhereland from where it is nearly impossible to come back... UK here I come!!!!!

Isabel, Paris, France

Oh stop bitching about each other and enjoy the differences between the two countries and their customs and people. And please stop generalising! It's so patronising and inaccurate.

Fiona, Munich, Germany

Atleast the French and in particular Parisians, know who they are,
The British haven't got a clue, which is why GB is so obsessional about national identity - there isn't any!

Expatriate Brit, Paris, France

I was in Paris two weeks ago for the first time. I must say that its one of the most beautiful cities EVER. The people also are very friendly but quite strange. Two strangers commented on how we would get fat if we kept on eating crepes (something which would probably never happen in the UK. Very distasteful) and the men chat you up with flair. Presented us with a red rose then asked for a one night stand....

We didn't have a bad experience once in Paris. Apart from the bitter cold. Now that was surely something to complain about, a country with worse weather than the UK??!!!

Kimberly W, Glasgow, Scotland

How true! I lived in France for a few years and the dysfunctionality of French families and parenting struck me (in the south, far from Paris) as astounding every time I went to the supermarket.

I am surprised, however, that having so effectively demolished the myth of the French health system (as a single man the compulsory insurance alone was costing me several thousand euros a year) you fall for the old Metro myth. The fact is, the Metro covers an area the size of a postage stamp compared to the London Underground. It also stinks, rumbles from A to B about as fast as a septuagenarian jogger, and after dark is so dangerous and so full of low-lifes that it has to be patrolled permanently by the CRS (jack-booted riot police). I'd rather take my chances at Stockwell Underground station.

Matthew Duckworth, London,

I just have to say bravo to Janine! Finally, someone who actually puts in print what I thought those 3 years I lived in Paris. I, too, gave birth to my son in Paris. I, too, threw out sweats and trainers. But, once you leave, you miss all the beauty and that glosses over all the daily crap that you put up with.

Kristi D'Anna, Atlanta,

I've lived in Paris for one year as a student and made real friends, because of worked, I've been living in London for eight years and have no English girlfriends whatsoever, I've tried but as you very well said, they are not interested, they are shy and awkard when you try to be friendly and after a while you realise why waste your time when there are dozens of lovely Italians, French, Spanish, Greeks, etc who know how to have a laugh,and make friends. After all this time here all my friends are either Europeans or from other parts of the world except England, funny enough , my friends have none or very few English friends too. Sorry for generalisation, just wanted to make my point

Udal, london,

How dare you describe as you did the fabulous nurses around the great Pr. Frydman. I had the best treatment there, they were all adorable and so clever, nothing the NHS could ever offer you, so for the rest...hard to beleive your experience.
Yes, we french don't like to breastfeed and are happy to have creches so we can go back to work. We like to dress, to eat well and think that despite the greves, it is the best quality of life Europe can offer. Certainly for less money than in the UK.

europhile, berlin,

Oh you are so right about France Christine. Having lived in Limoges for a year during my student days I have experienced many of the ups and downs of French life and I have a very good English friend who now lives in Paris and has gone through the French birthing experience. The state run pelvic floor exercises were an eye opener! What other country would urge you to consider your sex life days after giving birth, and for that you gotta admire the French - their priorities are certainly different from ours. The food, the wine, the markets, the gardens, the clothes are all wonderful. Life as a woman is probably easier in the UK but when I go back to France I always have a hankering for their way of life - probably because I don't live there! La vie en rose.

Sally, Bristol,

This is typical expatriate insecurity. I love Paris & London for different reasons.... but to live...... give me Paris any day. The Bourgeois Madame de Bellefonds needs to get a life. And stop listening to clichÃ©s at tea parties !

Jim, Paris, France

Could you judge London life from Living in Chelsea?

rob mchardy, paris, france

I cannot believe that anyone would ever make a complaint against the French health service and say that the NHS is better. I am French national living in the Uk and am 3 months pregnant, if I could I would go back to France and get followed there. All I have had so far in the UK is 2 blood test and was given a few info pamphlet. If I lived in France, I would have had my second scan and a multitude of examinations by now.
There are a lot of things wrong with France, but please, the health service is the best especially when compared with the UK. I would give the world to get free physio after the birth of my baby to get my pelvic floor back but it won't happen. The maternity pay in this country is so bad that I will have to go back to work after 6 weeks as I am the main eaner. Given me great creches any day. Working shouldn't be a priviledge. So Mrs Di Giovanni should realise that she is incredibly lucky and if my job didn#'t keep me here, I would go back in a sec!

anne marie, reading,

You have written a very informative bit about the French (at least, the Parisians) contra the rest of us. I am no Parisian by any means, but it rings true.

But I am puzzled about where you lived in Paris. From the view out of your window, it seems to be the 1st or perhaps 8th arrondissement, rather than the 6th.

JOhn Bellantoni, Sarasota, Florida, USA

Totally untrue - all of it. After 30 years in Paris (I'm originally Irish) with two children born here I cannot agree with anything you say. I love this city, this country and the people. However, you should know that you will meet nasty people all over the world

Mary Berg, Paris, France

This article certainly made me giggle, and I must confess to nodding along in amused agreement to much of it. Most notably the 'stinginess' of French at apÃ©ros (perhaps the English should take a leaf out of their and learn to appreciate a fine wine for it's quality rather than quantity?) and the over-amourous nature of the men. I shall never forget my mother's (French) response when I, aged 14 complained to her about the 40 something year old family friend stroking my thigh under the dinner table. The response was succinct and explanatory " "Don't worry, Darling. He's French".

However, I myself feel proud, and like to think that she and I have taken the best from both sides of the puddle. She may be impeccably turned out all the time, which, I admit, can often be exhausting. But I am proud to say that amongst the bagettes, escargots and cafetiÃ¨res in our home, never will you find a less than half empty wine glass.

Bianca Belby, Paris, France

Apparently she doesn't even know very basic French after all these years... It is not "la vie de la couple", but "la vie du couple". I doubt she understands clearly what people say to her in France and that French people understand what she tells them. That opens the door to many misunderstandings and might explain her strange experience.
My advice : go to a language school and try coffee without milk. Bonne chance !

Elise, Montpellier, France

I like going to Paris......
but only because when I come back to London, I appreciate living here so much more.

Genevieve, London,

As a french person, i have to say that i have never read so many stupidities in a post. I can't believe this happens in "The Times", unbelievable!
I have serious doubts about your experience in France.

LA VIE DE LA COUPLE : this one is good, especially said by a french!

nicolas, paris, france

As for the women, of course they look you up and down. It is a place that puts a premium on style. But it's still your right to run out for newspapers in a track suit if you prefer.

Why should you care what they think? You won't be French no matter how long you live there, and that gives you the leeway to dress and behave as you please. That's the real secret to enjoying Paris.

Brenda, New York, USA

Thank you Christine!

Antonio Dell'Elce, Rome, Italy

The author is so bitter that it seems she lost any sense of intellectual honesty and objectivity.. How can you write such general comments about a country of more than 60 inhabitants?

marie, Paris, France

It is quite interesting that a journalist should judge the French from living in the most upper-class district of the country, and then extend her experience to epitomise a whole country.
But it is what the readers want, isn't it? Expensive clothes, corner flower shops, Eiffel tower and accordeon in the background...

Hu, Oxford,

I know exactly how you feel. I was in France in 1956 and gave birth to a daughter, but in the American Hospital as had I gone to a French one my husband would have had to collect nappies and have them washed and returned to the Hospital. The 2 years we lived in Paris no one in my building ever said halloe. After my pregnancy no one asked if I had a child or took interest in the baby in the pram, except a shop girl who came from the south. The French keep to themselves and take no interest in their neighbours, a very strange people.Their children are polite and say good morning madam and thank you but it is automatic as they are trained to do so. Not a friendly nation/

Renny, Ramat Hasharon, Israel

I do not agree with almost anything you write. Your saving grace is the last few paragraphs. I am Irish, living in Paris for almost 30 years, had two kids here and I NEVER tire of this city, country and people. I have wonderful French friends, male and female. What a shame that you seem so bitter.

Mary, Paris, France

You must be the only person I know, male or female, French or foreign, who manages to find something to complain of in the French medical system. Can you imagine what you must have looked like, arriving to give birth with a tea-kettle? Any French nurse would find that funny. As for the rude doctors you accounted, it's happened to me too, but at least in France you can simply choose another, better, more polite practitioner.

Helene, Strasbourg, France

An article full of shocking inaccuracies, too numerous to mention.

Perhaps this is why Americans are loathed on both sides of the channel?

Theo, Paris, France

After 15 years in France with my own French husband I donâ€™t recognise the people, or the situations your talking about either and some huge untruths too. A more cliched portrait of France and the French would be impossible. Itâ€™s so easy to do French bashing, a poor piece of writing in my opinion.

Or maybe you were just been mixing in the wrong circles my dear.

Pauline, Paris, France

Paris stinks, the food is no better than in London (somewhat worse in my opinion) and the service is dreadful. The men are short and letchy, and the people live in a deluded state of greatness, whilst simultaneously moaning about everything.

My adivce is stay on the Eurostar a bit longer and arrive in Brussels, which, despite being full of eurofiles, is a delightful place.

G Wilson, London, UK

La vie de couple.

Eric Morse, London,

Janine exaggerate a little bit but I agree; Parisians are the worst people in the world. They are impolite, egocentric, ethnocentric, racist, stressed, snobbish, selfish, close-minded and they consider all other people (even other French people) as stupid and ignorant. If you want to enjoy Paris, the best time is in August, Parisians are all gone. If you want to live in France and enjoy the French way of life, you have to live everywhere in France except in Paris.
Dear foreigners, if you want to enjoy French parties with a glass always full of wine, please contact me.

Eric, Paris, France

To get your glass refilled, you mus give A Significant Look to your husband. Don't attempt to do it yourself, that's just gross.

Sacartine, Lille,

The French never watched black adder and all those tv black comedy series that are so pervasive in the UK. I think this is the basis for some of the more profound differences in the 30 somethings

Richard Brautigan, paris, France

Paris v/s London, London v/s Paris same old same old... It should be Rome v/s Barcelona, now those people know how to live and make foreigners at home

Bern, Beirut, Lebanon

Big feet. Mmmmmmmh

Homer, London, UK

yes France better without french, spain better without spanish, wales better without welsh, italy better without italians, germany better without germans..........................newsflash..........england better without the english

Genco Abbandando, naples,

i guess i should move to france.i get no nookie

male

steve, devonport, aust

Hi,
I donâ€™t think the Parisians are French or the French are not Parisians but itâ€™s still a nice place.
Regards Dr.Terence Hale Zandvoort

Terence Hale, zandvoort, Holland

I'm american and I've lived in Paris over 15 years. Some of what you say is true - overall grumpiness, the endless red tape and frequent strikes but for the rest it sounds like you live in another city ! I have many french friends and most of them are women - no backstabbing or trying to flirt with other husbands in our circle. Dinners are very convivial because the french LOOOVE their food and wine and I have NEVER had a problem with being offered another glass. As for children/working, the french moms I know all work but their attitude towards their children is certainly not about wanting to dump them asap at creche and get back to hubby and the perfect body ! Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe you have a weird sad group of french acquaintances and friends in Paris.

Siobhan Langrenot, Paris, France

This lady knows all about the really important things in life, what?

Lee Pefley, Deatsville, usa

Ms di Giovanni implies that English women are welcoming to outsiders. Hah! Certainly not my wife's experience, after 14 years in the UK.

And don't even get me started on NHS GPs. I would kill for being insulted by one for 30 mins - usually it's a cursory "what's wrong with you", a prescription and you are out in 5 mins.

Michael, Dubai,

I do not recognise the situations you talk about,but the you ARE in Paris!!!!
I've been married to my French husband for 33 years & he has NEVER behaved in the way you say. It must be Les Parisiens!

Jackie, Eure et Loir, France